With the recent talk of there being a Heroes Div 1 team forming I would like to put forward my thoughts on this topic as well as on how the club should proceed into the future.
For starters I’m not even sure there is a need for a Div 1 team. It seems that most people that are interested in playing Ultimate at a higher level and / or have the confidence in their own ability to play in at that level are already playing BPL or have a Div 1 team. Forming a new team under the Heroes name would then put the latter group in the unfair position of having to pick between their established teams and us.
Now onto what else could be done. As I am sure everyone is painfully aware, the numbers we are getting to each game is amazing to see but it doesn’t allow for much play time. What it also does is destroy any flow or cohesion to form between points. I believe this contributed to us underperforming during some games this season especially in the finals (both teams we faced had 2-3 subs max). “What can be done?” I hear you ask. Well I propose we see a return of the Agent Orange! A return that will see him challenge our Hero again.
With the combined current teams of Heroes and Discheads there should be enough numbers to fill a third team. By my count there are 15 boys and 13 girls. We might need to recruit a couple more to provide a few subs but surely this would be easier than trying to find 5+ more people to fill a Div 1 team.
Please comment on this thread with any other suggestions or thoughts. Perhaps we could even get a poll (it seems only Carl has the power to create polls.)
Chris et al.,
ReplyDeleteThe problem with three teams is simply leadership. Show me three leadership groups, i.e. 3 X 3 guys who have the experience and commitment to lead a team on the field and in training, teaching and developing strategies etc.
I can't figure out a way to help out discheads without "watering down" Heroes.
Gavin?
ReplyDeleteYea I think the leaders of the group is something that we def need to consider? maybe we can put a call out to some other ultimate players throughout other leagues?
ReplyDeleteI think many ppl in Heroes/Discheads would actually rather put up with playering with lots of subs and with their friends over than 2/3 subs and not with everyone else. Was this the problem with the first A/O experiment?
I do however think that the readers of this blog of heroes/discheads players are the ppl more likely to want to play in a higher league or with a split team/s. I think we need to really consider what we do and get it right this time. What was it that disbanned the last A/O team?
We have a long list of experienced players that could easily step up and lead a team on the field. Some of whom have been calling the line, encouraging from sideline etc. all season. These names are:
ReplyDeleteDanny
Carl
Sean
Sebastian
Josh
Chris
Dave
Mikey
Bev?
Jamie?
Steph
And as far as training / teaching, there is no reason why we couldn't all train together
There was no problem with Agent Orange.
ReplyDeleteIt just happened that some players didn't return and it was easier to enter one team this season.
It is true that Chris' list is somewhat experienced and skilled. There is no question that they could call the line and explain principles of ultimate.
I think leadership is more than that. It's about taking control of the group, analysing the play and acting accordingly, and from my experience, the challenge and reward is in gaining the confidence of the team not just in hype but in clarity of the game plan and individual roles.
I wonder what the names on that list would say if you said "would you consider captaining a side next season?"
When AO was around, what happened with Heroes? I know they finished top, but just wondering what the captaincy was like?
I agree with Chris. 3 teams for the win. If the dstrel's and the Carl's can't handle it I will start my own team called Asian Orange
ReplyDeleteI'd be happy to captain a div 2 team if wanted/needed.
ReplyDeleteI liked the idea of entering a heroes div 1 side, for the purpose of skills and knowledge increasing for those who might be ready for the next step (as it seemed to me there were several who might be). having said that though, i wouldnt play in it, being that im interested in bpl and div 2 for next season and dont have the time or energy for a third sporting commitment. so i feel like i cant really have a say in whether a div 1 side is fielded or not.
I would be confident however in there being enough players for 3 div 2 teams if it went this way. both the heroes and discheads have massive rosters and im sure we could get a few more new players before next season starts. (speaking of which, bring interested friends along to the learn to play/pickup nights happening over the next 3 weeks on mondays).
perhaps a 'watering down' (i dont particularly like this term but i understand why it has been used) is just what the heroes club needs for the more experienced players to learn about the game through teaching others. and it would undoubtably help the newer guys (unisex).
It seems that Discheads are MIA on the blog front, but personally I would love to play some disc at a higher level -read div 1 maybe eventually BPL- but maybe after another div2 season of experience to draw on.
ReplyDeleteAs for a 'reshuffle' of the club as a whole, Discheads have regularly had a couple players not available, resulting in only a couple (1-2) reserves each game. So may it all be well to assume that we have enough players on the rosters to fill 3 teams(given some recruitment) with captians, but will these teams be well rounded and competitive? I think that the worst result would be 3 teams all playing with only 1-2 reserves every week (maybe less) and have a shallow spread on depth in one or two sides.
Also be aware that if reshuffling does occur some may leave the game (due to not playing with friends - div2 is still social league eh?) If this does happen to a larger extent then we could be forced into 2 larger squards (Discheads taking some extra players from Heroes to even out numbers and depth)
But at the end of the day Discheads needs an extra experienced player to help assist/ work with Spaz as captain/coach. Whether that person comes from another league teams or within the club.
I agree with Craig with most of the things he has said especially in regards to the Discheads current situation. Between myself, Bev and our great team manager Jo (who actually does 98% of all the work/organisation) we've been able to keep discheads going this season without Josh (who we miss and enjoyed cameos from) and our marquee player Nathan. Obviously we haven't been as competitive as Heroes this season but with a number of new players we have progressed pretty well.
ReplyDeleteDanny you are definitely right in saying that to make another team happen there have to be 3 people willing to take on a bit more responsibility. Do things like... managerial duties and also being able to lead on the field.
Discheads are currently looking for an experienced player that could also help with a bit of coaching. I've heard rumours that Chris Fox may be interested and that would be very cool. I also think Discheads may be looking for another extra boy to bolster our ranks as Dave Truss has indicated he may hang up the boots next season and Justin M has taken up an exciting overseas job offer for the second half of this year.
In concluding, we as Discheads love being affiliated with the Heroes "club" aka friendship group and look forward to smashing your revised teams next season!!! =p
so word on the street is that Craig may have recurited some more players, and with Bevs workmates, the choice to submit a third team, prehaps under A/O is on the cards... As well as keeping Discheads and Heroes.
ReplyDeleteSome select Heroes may want to move to that team but we as a squad need to sit down and organize something don't we? Can we do it on the break up day/party
Personally I would like to play more of a game each week. The amount of subs we have for heroes is just too many, to the point that its detrimental to our performance. I would happily play for any of the 3 teams even if it was a weaker team than the one I am currently on.
ReplyDeleteI also don't think "watering down" of heroes is anything to be concerned about. When you look at the league from this season, apart from the 3 teams that finished above us, most teams are composed of relatively new players. Heroes has a tendancy to play at the level of the team we are playing against (especially me) which is evident in our frequent draws and close games regardless of the teams position on the ladder. I feel that heroes could achieve a similar result next season even if some of their better players were redistributed.
I definitely agree with Dave. I believe that the league supports many much smaller teams than us, and the huge reserve bench certainly didn't help us to establish any flow in the last couple of games this season.
ReplyDeleteI also thought I'd mention that, with a possible Div 1 team, it wouldn't necessarily take too many players from our other teams. Certainly, players could just play for whichever Division they chose, but, as already happens with a bunch of our players, there could be a number of players who 'double up'.
Basically, what I'm saying is that, if we were to make a Div 1 team, it would give people more of a chance to have a decent run every Monday night, while not necessarily straining the depth of the other teams to much.
And it's pretty clear that we have the talent to support a Div 1 team. If exQUisiTe can play the same team for both divisions, and finish the same rank in both, I think the fact that we more than held our own in our game against them speaks for itself.
I thought that the last plan I heard, to make Heroes the Div 1, and Agent Orange and Discheads Div 2, was great.
I wasn't aware that we were even really affiliated with discheads whos to say they want to amalgimate with us.
ReplyDeleteUpdates:
ReplyDeleteDiv 1 - Heroes. We have plenty of guys interested and no girls. Nathan told me that this is OK, because BUML want to encourage DIV 1 and would recruit some girls for us.
Div 2 - Discheads. They want to stay together but want a bit of help. We'll work something out.
Heroes / Agent Orange - I think two smaller squads can work, and would leave room for the inevitable early-season placements.
Gav is trying to organise a leadership meeting, so we'll figure out some squad ideas through that. If anyone wants to have a go at banging up some lists, do it and send it to me.
This season I haven't been overly enthusiastic about frisbee. It is really hard to get into a game when you can be sitting on the side for a large number of points. Having 7 girls subs can have its perks, but all in all it isn't a good thing. The girls lose enthusiasm and skills. Having three teams, and spreading the girls across the teams would benefit the girls as I find the best games that I play are the ones where I am only able to be off for a point max. More game time means we can aquire better skills and more confidence (with the help of Div 1 and BPL players)
ReplyDeleteIntroducing a Div 1 team is not the worst idea that has been thrown around. Introducing a div 1 team for those guys who are really keen would be fantastic as they would bring more to the Div 2 teams if they decide to continue Div 2. By spreading the teams a little, it is likely that some of our girls will want to step up maybe next year or earlier if our skills improve.
When it comes to leadership, there are a number of people that have the leadership skills and game skills that could run a team. I think that discheads have it right by sharing that leadership around with Sebastian coaching/captaining and Jo being more on the managerial side of things.
We need to remember that we are team, who play for fun, and for frisbee love.
postin' "Me too!" like some brain-dead AOL-er
ReplyDeletewell said megs!
ReplyDeleteIf you don't get that comment please see this link
ReplyDeleteAlso if you read the above mentioned link and are baffled as to what the Y2K bug is because you were 8 at the time (Vanessa) then please see the Y2K wiki article
ReplyDeleteModerator plz on Mikey i hear you all ask?
ReplyDeletemee 2
ReplyDeleteWhat is this? The Chinese government? Or Australian for that matter?
ReplyDeletewhat you wanna do, wanna be hackers? code crackers? slackers? wasting time with all the chat room yackers?
ReplyDeleteMichael, this kind of pop-culture and current political referencing is what we need to bring our blog up (or down) to the level of the Dojo. Not that I have read their blog since the second week of BPL. Mind you, our references will be all 90's, rather than 80's :P
haha the Dojo are so old arent they?
ReplyDeletei realise im a bit late for this but i forgot to keep checking the blog.
ReplyDeletebut i think three teams is a great idea
and knowing about the y2k bug isnt important :)