On Monday night there was a 'travel' call made by the opposition on one of the Heroes players throw which lead to a scoring catch being made. So as you can imagine that was kinda annoying, so here in the Heroes secret hideout we thought we'd check the rules to understand what constitutes a travel. Now the Defensive player (we won't name names, but they are very experienced and we certainly respect them. This is not to contradict their call but more establish what a travel means) ...called a travel because "the thrower dragged his pivot foot when releasing the disc". So what do the rules say?
18.2.6.4. the thrower fails to keep the established pivot until releasing the disc;
18.2.6.5. the thrower fails to maintain contact with the playing field throughout the
throwing motion;
So what happens when the offensive player, in this case the Heroes player, accidentally drags his pivot foot, along the ground, not pulling it off the ground, in the motion of throwing the disc. So I ask is this called correct? It may be, I dont have a problem with it, but the rules only state that their must be contact with the ground at all times. So because the Heroes player DID maintain contact with the playing field throughout the throwing motion is it a travel?
Secondly the wording of the first rule implies that you might be able to include a pivot drag in the act of releasing the disc. If the rule meant you couldn't drag your foot in the act of throwing it would read:
The thrower fails to keep the established pivot until the disc has been released. (ie left the hand)
BUT the word 'releasing' (means still leaving the hand) was used. Because the 'ing' constitutes motion. Motion is therefore throwing. If then in the act of throwing you drag your foot, it is not a travel - right?
Sure you cannot drag your pivot up the field to gain meters but actually if I am interpreting the wording correctly, in the act or releasing the disc, if there is a drag - its ok?
You have missed section 18.2.4 which says "The thrower may change direction only by establishing a pivot poitn, where one part of their body remains in constant contact with a certain spot of the playing field, called a pivot point.
ReplyDeleteAlso, section 18.2.6.1 says that a travel infraction occurs if the thrower establishes the pivot at an incorrect point on the playing field.
I would say that if you drag your foot, the opposition would say that you have changed your pivot point and have re-established it at an incorrect point, thus creating an infraction.
It is also worth noting that the Spirit of the Game would dictate that the rules are there to be followed, not have loop holes found in them.
See http://brisbaneultimatedisc.blogspot.com/search/label/Rules for a post done last year that received praise from a member of the WFDF rules committee.
Yea thats true Wetnose, I know its been a widely hot topic and the change of rules has probably been due to that, if not exasperated it to a point also. Therefore worth debate.
ReplyDeleteIts worth noting I wasnt trying to justify our score either (keen not to be accused of lack of Spirit :P) But at least now the newer Heroes can understand the rules better if they cared to read.
More like the newer Heroes can understand how bad Carl is at interpreting the rules
ReplyDeleteDragged toe is a blatant travel. End of argument.
ReplyDeleteway to post anonymously..
ReplyDeleteAgreed dstrel.
ReplyDeleteHowever is dragging your foot is different to rolling over the toe ie maintaining you pivot point?
Wetnose: Is it possible that section 18.2.6.1 is actually intended for anoter issue altogether? - and not related to travelling? (ps I am a novice) perhaps if a player's first foot that lands is out of play after catching the disc ... this catch is invaild yes?
All that aside, if you can drag your foot in the motion of releasing the disc Where does a fake leave you?
Wow Ive even been ridiculed out on the BUB comment trail too... Dstrel - its been brought up because I was still confused about it. Now I am not, because of everyone kind words of support.
ReplyDeletecbeh the rule that Wetnose is talking about is actually specific to travelling in its wording.
Section 18.2.6.1 falls under the section of "Travel Infractions" so I'm pretty sure that it relates to travels.
ReplyDeleteit's ok Carl, you're not the first Cobra's player to have a disclaimer against you :P (Jack)
ReplyDeleteIts worth adding that because the Brisbane Ultimate Blog has set such a high standard and is so authoritative and never questioned on almost any matter, people foolishly expect that from other blogs. My view: its a great thing for Carl to improve his rules knowledge by posting questions on his blog and discussing in the comments
ReplyDeleteps this blog needs more Starkey
ReplyDeleteTOTALLY AGREED - where is that little Starky.
ReplyDeleteAw, guys, it's nice to be wanted.
ReplyDeleteI've been following it with interest, but didn't bother weighing in because I felt it was all pretty obvious. You establish a pivot foot. If that moves from the initial spot in any way then it's a travel.
I also kinda agreed with Wetnose's thought that we shouldn't really be trying to find loopholes in the rules. Not to be naming any names, of course. Right, site creator?
No just establishing correct wording
ReplyDeleteHaha, suure ;) gotcha.
ReplyDelete